NC House Leaders Slam ACLU On Prayer Complaint

Republican leaders in the North Carolina House of Representatives say a complaint about prayers in the legislature shows a prominent civil liberties group is out of touch.

House Speaker Thom Tillis and Majority Leader Paul Stam said Friday that they'll review the letter sent a day earlier by the state chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union.

The group says that prayers endorsing one religion over the others cannot be part of General Assembly sessions.

Stam says he doesn't believe lawmakers' prayers are the same as government-backed religious expression. Tillis says the constitution protects individuals' right to have their own religious beliefs.

ACLU legal director Katy Parker says prayers in government bodies that refer to a particular religion run afoul of First Amendment protections.


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  • by Obama Snake Oil Co Location: Washington on Feb 6, 2012 at 11:25 AM
    This is an absurd perversion of the concept of separation of church and state. When Thomas Jefferson wrote that (it’s not found in American law), he meant that the church should not dictate to the State on law — and that the state should not dictate to the church on doctrine. Jefferson wanted to avoid establishing a state religion run by Parliament that had the power to manipulate the spiritual for the sake of the secular. That is exactly what Obama proposes to do in this case: dictate to the Catholic Church and its organizations that its doctrine on contraception, abortion, and sterilization are incorrect and force them to fund those practices that violate their most deeply held beliefs on the sanctity of life, all to satisfy Obama’s political needs.
    • reply
      by Anonymous on Feb 6, 2012 at 02:06 PM in reply to Obama Snake Oil Co
      They're not forcing the Catholic church to do anything, they're free to shut down every hosital they run if they so wish. They're not free to dictate what type of medical care they think they'll give on a certain day based on a 2000 year old eloberate hoax.
      • reply
        by 250 on Feb 6, 2012 at 04:13 PM in reply to
        How about those of us "old schoolers" that were raised up with the very simple altruistic beliefs that "birth control" IS A "man's" resposibility? When you're done laughing. I can wait for the replies.
        • reply
          by Obama Snake Oil Co on Feb 7, 2012 at 06:01 AM in reply to 250
          So side stepping the issue. Is there something about abortion you do not understand or is murder OK in your book? The party that screams, do it for the children is the same party killing the unborn...nice...
  • by Obama Snake Oil Co Location: Washington on Feb 6, 2012 at 07:28 AM
    “What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.” George Washington “ Of all systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come under my observation, none appear to be so pure as that of Jesus.” “Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice can not sleep forever.” Thomas Jefferson “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” “The Bible … is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed.” Patrick Henry Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution “Cursed be all that learning, that is contrary to the cross of Christ.” James Madison 4th U.S. President
  • by hope Location: NC on Feb 4, 2012 at 11:17 PM
    IN GOD I TRUST! Man will fail you...
  • by christian Location: Belhaven on Feb 4, 2012 at 05:54 PM
    My money says "In God We Trust", that's what this country was based on in the beginning of our nation. If God was not part of this country in the beginning, then why is it printed on our money? I have faith in God and I am proud of our republican leaders.
    • reply
      by Truth on Feb 4, 2012 at 06:31 PM in reply to christian
      Other than a few various coins, American currency before the 1950's had no mention of God. There were no national mottos eluding to God until 36 years after 1776. The addition of "In God We Trust" was added as a response at least partially in the 50's to the Red Scare of Communism, not an allusion to the foundation of our country.
      • reply
        by Obama Snake Oil Co on Feb 6, 2012 at 05:23 AM in reply to Truth
        You got that denial thing going on there....you better hope your little theory is right.
        • reply
          by saywha? on Feb 6, 2012 at 06:18 AM in reply to Obama Snake Oil Co
          Good grief, snake oil, what Truth says about the timing of the addition of 'In God We Trust" to our currency is common knowledge.
        • reply
          by Anonymous on Feb 6, 2012 at 08:53 AM in reply to Obama Snake Oil Co
          Apparently to Republicans, denial is a matter of fact. Sorry OSOC, it's a fact that "In God We Trust" wasn't added to the currently untill 1956.
        • reply
          by Obama Snake Oil Co on Feb 6, 2012 at 10:42 AM in reply to Obama Snake Oil Co
          Sorry, god has been with this country since before being a nation...endowed by the creator; "What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.” George Washington “ Of all systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come under my observation, none appear to be so pure as that of Jesus.” “Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice can not sleep forever.” Thomas Jefferson “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” “The Bible … is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed.” Patrick Henry Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution “Cursed be all that learning, that is contrary to the cross of Christ.” James Madison 4th U.S. President
        • reply
          by Singular Sal on Feb 6, 2012 at 12:05 PM in reply to Obama Snake Oil Co
          So, let me get this straight, you think the US is a special creation of God's? If so, you are claiming it was a-ok for hundreds of thousands of Naitve Americans to be killed outright (and millions more to die of disease and starvation), their land to be stolen from them, tens of thousands of Christians of Hispanic origin to be killed and many more to have their lands stolen from them as the USA took Spanish Florida and later the American southwest, that God was ok with the enslavement of millions of people in the South.....and the list goes on and on. Despite an often terrible track, I love this country but I certainly hope that God hasn't been in support of all this because that would certainly make me question my faith.
        • reply
          by Obama Snake Oil Co on Feb 6, 2012 at 12:31 PM in reply to Obama Snake Oil Co
          So if that is what you think of the United States history, so be it, however, most that have studied history know of the turn of events that led to this country evolving rather than the typical liberal talking points. If you are unconfortable, find another country that best suits you and your convictions. If that is all you learned from the history of the greatest, most highly regarded country in the world, you have learned nothing.
        • reply
          by Anonymous on Feb 6, 2012 at 02:10 PM in reply to Obama Snake Oil Co
          It isn't what he THINKS of United States history, OSOC. It's what actually happened. You're saying it's fine for God to be a mass-murdering, sociopathic, bigot. Don't change the subject or apologize for it. Just own up to the version of God you want and we'll all be better off.
        • reply
          by Obama Snake Oil co on Feb 6, 2012 at 03:39 PM in reply to Obama Snake Oil Co
          If that is what they are teaching you in school about history, you need a new school. He has not said anything but the liberal interpretational summary of America and it is devoid of the facts that support something of why and how; the facts. I suggest you find "Killing Lincoln". It will tell you more about the 1800s and there are many books on George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. What he posted was garbage not even worth repeating. It shows a lack of intelligence and ignorance, thats easy. Guess using his Xbot was more important than paying attention to homework.
        • reply
          by saywha? on Feb 6, 2012 at 05:11 PM in reply to Obama Snake Oil Co
          You know snake oil, I've mentioned before that in a prior career I was an assistant professor at a college in Virginia, but I don't think I let on that my area of speciality was pre-independence US and Latin American history. I'm willing to take my first person research findings against whatever tripe you want to march out. I also find it quite telling that you try to use O'Reilly's book, one that a whole wide range of scholars have ridiculed for its numerous factual errors, as some kind of touchstone for what is truth in American history. Like Sal, I love my country, I love it dearly, but part of understanding our place in history means we must accept both the good and the bad. They both makes us what we are.
        • reply
          by Obama Snake Oil Co on Feb 7, 2012 at 06:08 AM in reply to Obama Snake Oil Co
          Saywha, So you have memorized the rewritten history from the libertial handbook? Then you repeat the talking points from the left about a few typos in Oreillys book. No rebuttal on a real inacurracy in the book, just the typos discredit his work? Can you tell us just who writes a book that has no typos in it? I am yet to read one yet. Seems you change the rules to what you require to discredit a writer in your favor. Sorry, to let the facts of the founding fathers get in the way of your progressive rewriting of history.
  • by saywha? Location: Washington on Feb 4, 2012 at 02:54 PM
    I'm a Christian but I see absolutely no reason for our gov't sessions to begin with a Christian prayer. My faith is for me, my family, my church and my community and I recognize that in our nation we have a right to practice any religion we like and I respect that. Our legislators represent ALL North Carolinians and unless they are going to have prayers said for all the main religions practiced in our state then I'm certainly Ok with none being said. I have faith that God is going to judge us on how we treat those among us who are poor and downtrodden......not on how we bang a drum about saying a prayer, especially when those saying the prayer want to do it to make a political point rather than because of the solace it brings.
    • reply
      by Theresa on Feb 4, 2012 at 07:36 PM in reply to saywha?
      If these men and women choose to start their sessions with prayer, would you as a Christian deny them the right? If there were anyone who wanted a different prayer, then have two or more. But why as a Christian would you not want them to ask for God's guidence in the choices they make for N.C. God knows this state needs all the prayer it can get. Just takes reading the news to see that. God says to ask for His guidence and to pray without ceaasing. As a Christian you should be all for that.
      • reply
        by saywha? on Feb 5, 2012 at 05:28 PM in reply to Theresa
        I would certainly be fine with multiple prayers being said because, while not of those other faiths, I respect my fellow North Carolinians who are. That said, I pray that God leads our legislators to do as little damage as possible since by their actions, especially this current crop, they seem to understand little of Christ's message.
    • reply
      by Whatever on Feb 4, 2012 at 11:30 PM in reply to saywha?
      You aren't even close to being Christian if you think prayer should not be said before they make laws affecting the lives and freedoms of everyone in NC
      • reply
        by saywha? on Feb 5, 2012 at 05:21 PM in reply to Whatever
        Whether or not our legislators pray to a deity doesn't interest me in the least. I suspect God cares more about if we are following the lesson Jesus teaches us in Matthew Chp 25 about how we honor God by treating those in need than about a group of half wits in the state house doing a dog and pony prayer show for their low wattage followers. Our legislators prove through their behavior, both in their private and public lives, that saying these prayers is simply lip service........they do Christianity a disservice.
  • by Dave Location: New Bern,nc on Feb 4, 2012 at 12:21 PM
    God is for real. Just because you don't believe in him doesn't mean he doesn't exist. I can only speak for myself though and what he has done for me and how my life is better. You should read "heaven is for Real" a book about Colton Todd Burpo.
    • reply
      by Truth on Feb 4, 2012 at 02:06 PM in reply to Dave
      Bigfoot is real. Just because you don't believe in him doesn't mean he doesn't exist. I can only speak for myself though and what he has done for nature and how the forest is safer. You should read "Bigfoot is Real" a book about a guy that saw Bigfoot.
      • reply
        by bruce Whitaker jr on Feb 4, 2012 at 06:12 PM in reply to Truth
        Hey truth dont you think its great that the house leader stands up for his rights. Your running out. Seems to me the only option you have is to convert to Christian. I what a government base on christian believes. This why I live in America. If they dont want to pray they dont have to dont try to stop the believers. Government started with God and Shall End With God.
        • reply
          by Truth on Feb 4, 2012 at 06:34 PM in reply to bruce Whitaker jr
          Just because you say it doesn't mean it's true. I think it's great that the house leader can say what he wants. I want him to be able to pray all day long if he wants to. Of course, mandating a prayer is a clear violation of the 1st amendment. It's already been found that unless something achieves a "secular purpose", it has no place in government. What secular purpose does prayer to an imaginary deity have?
        • reply
          by Anonymous on Feb 6, 2012 at 08:58 AM in reply to bruce Whitaker jr
          Murdering people for having an abortion? Making sure women have no say and are subjugated and cannot speak? Holding slaves? Murdering gay people? These are things you want to be common place in society?
  • by rapper Location: wilson on Feb 4, 2012 at 09:36 AM
    Let 'em pray on their own time. These fools have been sent to work the people's issue;they can go to their respective places of worship on their own time.
    • reply
      by Anonymous on Feb 5, 2012 at 04:52 AM in reply to rapper
      Did you know that tadpoles eventually become frogs? I am so glad the GOP is running NC and will be even more glad when they take the senate from Harry Reid. Did you know that no matter what you do, god is watching you?
  • by Anonymous on Feb 4, 2012 at 08:01 AM
    We are destroying our own country from the inside out.
  • by Aladin on Feb 4, 2012 at 06:17 AM
    I am very concerned that governmental personnel believe they are compelled to pray for guidance from a mythological god. It is absolutely bug-nut crazy. If you choose to waste your time praying, please do so, do it on your own time, it might make you feel good about yourself. JUST KEEP YOUR RELIGION OUT OF MY GOVERNMENT!!!!!
    • reply
      by Lynn on Feb 4, 2012 at 07:28 PM in reply to Aladin
      It is also MY government and I will vote only for those intelligent and bold enough to stand up for the Lord and His commandments. Keep your government out of my religion which I am free to practice ANYWHERE and ANYTIME I choose. If you don't like it, don't participate but stop trying to stop those of us who want it from having it. We have just as much right as you.
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      by God&country on Feb 4, 2012 at 11:36 PM in reply to Aladin
      If you don't want God in your government then move to russia because no matter how much you God haters try to do to erase the history of God being the reason America was formed you will never win.
      • reply
        by Anonymous on Feb 6, 2012 at 09:00 AM in reply to God&country
        If you want God in your government move to Rome. Leave the United States to the rational.
  • by Theresa on Feb 4, 2012 at 06:06 AM
    Finally, someone with enough integrety to stand for what is right! He interpets the law as it was meant not as the minority wants it to be. He represents the majority of people. God Bless him. We need more intelligent men like him in office.
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